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Página 1
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)PDF note
• Some slides in the presentation are complex
and involve many parts which come and go.
• Hence I have split the complex slides into
parts so that the overall purpose of each slide
becomes clearer.
• Some comments have also been introduced to
make the PDF clearer to follow.
Página 2
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)PYTHAGOREAN WISDOM
IN TURKISH MAKAMS
MEŞK IN THE LAST CENTURY
Half a lifetime’s learning in
the Meşk tradition of Turkey
Self-discovery through music
Dr. Alan Wenham-Prosser D.Prof. , MA.
Página 3
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)FIRST SUBJECT
Meşk
Master – Pupil
Tradition
Página 4
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)What is Meşk in Music?
Meşk is a face to face system for
ensuring that musicians emulate
their master’s skills and knowledge
in the art of music.
It requires no books. Its aim is for
the student to discover
his / herself through discipline.
The eternal question, “Who am I ?”
Página 5
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)What is Meşk in Music?
Página 6
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)My teacher Necdet Yaşar
Master of the Makam system
Master of the tanbur.
Played often at Konya Mevlevi
th
gatherings 17 December
Master in the art of Taksim
Was taught through Meşk system
A man who knew himself.
Página 7
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)My teacher Necdet Yaşar
Taught me and my daughter , face to face
74 Makams (musical modes) over 8 years.
Página 8
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)second SUBJECT
ORIGINS OF
EASTERN MUSIC
INCLUDING TURKISH
MUSIC
Página 9
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)RAUF YEKTA BEY
Página 10
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)RAUF YEKTA BEY
• Turkish Mevlevi musicologist & neyzen.
• From his 1921 book “La Musique Turk”
• “--- Farabi, a Muslim Scholar,
grounded Eastern music in Greek
theory.----”
• “--The Pythagoreans originated
the basic division of the octave as
2:1, 3:2, 4:3, 5:4 etc. For them
everything was numbers; even the
construction of the Universe.---”
Página 11
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Many centuries ago - a great teacher
From an ancient line of gurus.
After 40 years of travel and study.
Discovered his True Self
Using mathematics and music.
Founded an ashram community.
Taught vegetarianism & reincarnation
and a contemplative life
Trained disciples in sacred knowledge;
uniting the human soul with the Divine.
Página 12
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)POWer OF MATHEMATICS
PITHA-GURU = FATHER TEACHER
a great mathematician
Página 13
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)POWer OF MATHEMATICS
PITHA-GURU = PYTHAGORAS
also a great musician
and a great philosopher
Página 14
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)JOURNEY OF MUSIC
Pythagoras took music from India and Egypt to Anatolia, then to
Italy; then to Greece. After it spread throughout European
countries; but became modified and simplified.
Página 15
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)JOURNEY OF MUSIC
↑Tanbur like
instrument
Egyptian wall painting,
Página 16
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)JOURNEY OF MUSIC
↑Davut Ney
Egyptian wall painting,
Página 17
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)JOURNEY OF MUSIC
Due to the effect of the Greek Empire the Greek
music theory travelled to the Middle East.
Página 18
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)JOURNEY OF MUSIC
Al Kindi : Al Farabi : Ibn Sina : Safi al Din
Seljuk
Seljuk
Seljuk
Mohgul
Great men who translated Greek theory
into Arabic scripts and continued the
meşk system in their music schools.
Página 19
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)JOURNEY OF MUSIC
DuringTimurid and Ottoman times the
music system came to mainland Turkey. .
Página 20
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Pythagoras’ vision of music
from - - “Music, Mysticism and Magic” by J. Godwin
“Pythagoras related that his Soul rose as far as
the higher world.
Due to the purity of his being and to the divinatory
power of his heart, he heard the melodies of the
Spheres and the sonorities produced by the
movements of the heavenly bodies;
At the same time he became aware of the discreet
resonance of the voices of their Angels." = Makam
Angel = Indian Goddess Saraswati
Página 21
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Saraswati is
the Goddess
of both
devotion
&
knowledge
This means
both art and
science are
made into
one thing.
Music is this
kind of art.
Página 22
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Prayer
beads
indicate
devotion.
Scripture
scroll
indicates
knowledge
Página 23
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Joining of
left and
right hands
on the vina.
This
indicates
that music
combines
science and
Página 24
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)In the Yoga Vasistha it
says – Saraswati is the
wisdom that shines in
the hearts of all.
She is the intelligence
of all.
She is the Self of all.
Página 25
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Human beings, vegetables,
or cosmic dust, we all
dance to the mysterious
tune, played in the distance
by an invisible flute player.
Einstein
We rarely hear the
inner music, but even so we
are all dancing to it.
Rumi
Página 26
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Pythagoras’ DiscovEriEs
Pythagoras treated men and
women as equals
But are they equal?
In one thing they are not.
Página 27
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Pythagoras’ DiscovEriEs
If you ask a man and a woman
to imitate a musical note
There’s one octave = 2:1
bewteen their pitches.
Hence the octave 2:1 is the
first natural harmony
Página 28
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)THIRD SUBJECT
ORIGINS OF
MUSIC
+
BEAUTY IN
MATHEMATICS
Página 29
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)BEAUTY IN MATHEMATICS
How they all fit inside each other
RATIOS
2:1 = twice the vibrations
3:2 = 1½ times the vibrations
4:3 = 11/3 times the vibrations
5:4 = 1¼ ; 3:1 = 3 times etc.
Commas
To avoid the use of ratios commas are used.
2:1 = octave = 53 commas
Página 30
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)BEAUTY IN MATHEMATICS
How they all fit inside each other
The melody is a single melodic line with no real
use of chords. Called Just Intonation
Necdet Yaşar taught with commas, not ratios
Página 31
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)BEAUTY IN MATHEMATICS
How they all fit inside each other
The melody is a single melodic line with no real use
of chords. Called Just Intonation
Necdet Yaşar taught with commas, not ratios
Página 32
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)BEAUTY IN MATHEMATICS
How they all fit inside each other
Página 33
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)BEAUTY IN MATHEMATICS
How they all fit inside each other
I call these Causal intervals.
These two systems, Just Intonation and Causal
form all the notes in the Makam system.
Intervals as small as 256:255 or 243:241 pass from
being heard to being felt. Here music crosses
from knowledge to devotion
Página 34
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)FOURTH SUBJECT
PYTHAGORAS’
USE OF HIS
DISCOVERIES
Página 35
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Pythagoras’ DiscovEriEs
Pythagoras’
system was
taught by
word of
mouth only;
For centuries.
This is Meşk.
Página 36
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Pythagoras’ DiscovEriEs
The interval
of the middle
third = ½ of
the perfect 5th
is special –
more about
that later.
Página 37
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Pythagoras’ DiscovEriEs
Due to UK
academic rules,
Meşk proved
difficult to be
accepted.
The boxed intervals
were proved other
than by the meşk
system, from
German discoveries
Página 38
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)FIFTH SUBJECT
GERMAN
PHYSIOLOGY
DISCOVERIES
Página 39
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)OTHER SOURCES - HELMHOLTZ
Página 40
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)OTHER SOURCES - HELMHOLTZ
Hermann Helmholtz
1821 to 1894
German Physicist
Psychologist
Researched intervals
Interesting results
Página 41
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)OTHER SOURCES - HELMHOLTZ
roughness
0
0
smoothness
Página 42
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)SIXTH SUBJECT
Meşk &
TANBURI
CEMIL BEY
Página 43
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)20th CENTURY MEŞK
Cemil Bey was
an important
part of the
many
centuries of
oral tradition.
Página 44
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)TANBURİ CEMİL BEY
Cemil’s son
Mesut Cemil
followed his
father’s path.
Mesut was the
teacher of
Necdet Yaşar.
Página 45
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)TANBURİ CEMİL BEY
Cemil to Mesut
and to Necdet: is
a part of a meşk
line that goes
back many
centuries across
the Middle East
Página 46
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)SEVENTH SUBJECT
TANBUR NECK
EVIDENCE
Página 47
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)No hay texto en esta página.
Página 48
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)NECK OF TURKISH TANBUR
Hence many Pythagorean
notes went missing after the
1930’s
This was due to the
Ezgi/Arel notation system
not able to accommodate
all the notes.
Página 49
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)NECK OF TURKISH TANBUR
A researcher from the USA
recorded this in 1972 in his
doctorate treatise called Makam
The tanbur neck looked like this in 1970s.
From Karl Signel’s book called Makam
Página 50
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)NECK OF TURKISH TANBUR
But Necdet Yaşar’s tanbur neck
looked like this in the 1970’s.
No notes missing
Página 51
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)NECK OF TURKISH TANBUR
Due to the Meşk system
the Pythagorean notes
were all retained. But not
in the main stream Ezgi /
Arel system.
Página 52
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)From a Makam lesson recording
[Necdet] Saba family – when I am
going in the descending position,
I am sliding – like this Uşşak. 2,
2 ½ ,3 commas; Before I play the
theory (book) Re flat 4 commas;
[plays] it is wrong for me; it is not
Saba; it can be only a musical
joke; not music. [plays correct
interval]
Página 53
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)[Necdet] Saba family – when I
am going
the
descending
The interval of
position, I am sliding – like
the middle third
this Uşşak. 2, 2 ½ ,3 commas;
=
11½
commas
or
Before I play the theory (book)
less;
is
found
the
Re flat 4 commas; [plays] it is
Necdet
hasSaba; it
wrongway
for me;
it is not
described
can be only
a musical joke; not
music. [plays correct interval]
Página 54
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)EIGHTH SUBJECT
RAUF YEKTA BEY
CONCEPT OF
MOVEMENT & REST
Página 55
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)movement and rest
A quote from Rauf Yekta Bey 1922
The movement and rest in music
plays a very important role in the
expression of Turkish Makams.
The Makam which misses out on
this vital double element
is no longer a Makam.
Página 56
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)movement and rest
A quote from Rauf Yekta Bey 1922
It would be a body without a soul.
A juxtaposition of musical
molecules with no link bewteen.
These two elements, movement
and rest, allow the recognition of
each Makam.
Página 57
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Necdet Yaşar
From a recital recording in UK
Nihavent taksim – recital Durham UK
recorded by presenter.
Página 58
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)74 Makams taught by Necdet
with no notes missing
Página 59
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)NInth SUBJECT
RAUF YEKTA BEY
RECOMMENDATION
FOR EUROPE
Página 60
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Rauf Yekta Bey
• Mevlevi
• Musician
• Musicologist
• Author
• Researcher
• Genius
Página 61
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)What should Europe do?
Quote from Rauf Yekta Bey. 1922
The various tetrachords and
pentachords are like the main
colours on an artist’s palette.
Combining them he sees many
nuances. The same it is for the
Turkish musician.
Página 62
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)What should Europe do?
Quote from Rauf Yekta Bey. 1922
Combining the tetrachords and
pentachords he creates many
melodies or many Makams.
Adding modulation and the many
Turkish rhythms, he has immense
melodic resources; far superior to
that of the European musician.
Página 63
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)What should Europe do?
Quote from Rauf Yekta Bey. 1922
Surely European ears can enjoy
more than major and minor
scales? It’s time for the West to
create a general theory of music
And enrich their harmonies with
the precious treasure preserved
by the Oriental ancestors.
Página 64
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)TENTH SUBJECT
PRESENTER’S
RECOMMENDATION
FOR TURKEY
Página 65
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)The rich history of Turkish music.
What should Turkey do now?
Turkish music was a stand-alone powerful
system of melody; it had the power to uplift
the human soul to peace and happiness.
It was melodically far superior to any music
found in Europe in the 20th Century.
No need for any intervention from Europe.
The removal of the finer intervals giving the
music its magic; was a great tragedy.
Página 66
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)The rich history of Turkish music.
What should Turkey do now?
Now around the 100 year anniversary of the
changes introduced by the Ezgi/Arel system, it is
time for Turkey to revive the ancient system.
And show Europe Turkey’s great heritage in
music. The birth-right of Turkish people. Its
melody surpasses that of European music.
Let’s mark this anniversary by returning to
the glory of this past heritage; and teach it
to the young musicians of today.
Página 67
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)TWELVTH SUBJECT
Meşk
SUMMARY OF
ALL SUBJECTS
Página 68
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)MASTERY
From Yoga Vasishtha chpt.V. 43
No! Nothing whatsoever is
gained with the help of God or
guru (teacher) or wealth or other
means. But only by self-effort at
a complete mastery of the mind
Página 69
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Q. - What is Meşk in Music?
A. - Four stages of mastery.
1. Mastery of the instrument of choice.
2. Mastery of the Makam system.
3.
. Mastering communication with others.
4. Mastering communication within oneself.
These 4 reach deeper at each stage;
and include those before.
Página 70
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Deeper into what?
Deeper into your own being.
In sleep, body and senses close.
Página 71
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Deeper into your own being.
Remember – “mastery of the mind.”
The areas which overlap make our
experiences
Página 72
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Deeper into your own being.
How all the intervals relate to the four
stages of Pythagorean mastery.
Página 73
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)THIRTEENTH SUBJECT
One Result of
Meşk
Página 74
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)THE ROAD TO MASTERY
On my birthday in 1971 magic happened.
A girl was born who became my best friend.
She started to play the ney at age 7.
Studied under Necdet Yaşar from age 9.
Played in mutrip at Galata Tekke age 14
Played on Turkish television at age 15 .
Now you will hear her Karcığar taksim.
AFTER THIS I CLOSE MY PRESENTATION
Página 75
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)The result of Meşk
Daughter Tansy
semazen
neyzen
composer
the result of Meşk
my soul mate
Página 76
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)Karcığar son yürük semai & taksim
Note :- in the
taksim ; use of
movement & rest
and middle third
intervals
Página 77
Ver en el PDF(se abre en una ventana nueva)PrEsEntEr’s onLinE PaPErs
Go to - https://www.academia.edu/
Followed by these numbers
• Pythagorean Sufi Music
144020337/
• Creativity in music
37095440/
• Mevlevi Music and Whirling 118215910/
• Revival of the music system 125957049/
• https://www.youtube.com/@dr.alanwenhamprosser/videos playing Mevlevi Ayinler
• Contact & MP3’s of Necdet’s Makam
lessons alanwprosser@gmail.com
HAPPY READING/ LISTENING